Health care over – Crazy talk not
With Health care reform passed, there are those calling it the greatest progressive achievement of the last two generations and those that think it is disaster in the making – a valid concern providing you’ve gotten your information about the bill’s content from a reputable source.
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And then there are those on the Congressional floor calling Democrats Baby Killers, accusing the president of lying, and threatening violence if health care reform passed. And let’s not forget the teabagger protesters who called a 60′s era civil rights activists a ni**er, called Barney Frank a fa**ot, and spat on democratic members of congress. I’m sure the vast majority of Republicans are mortified by these fringe lunatics – and GOP leadership would do well to start denouncing this behavior and distancing themselves from them instead of speaking at their rallies.
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The November elections will be interesting. Without a single Republican vote, the Democrat’s rose from the ashes of the Scott Brown conflagration and snatched health care victory from the jaws of defeat. With they be praised or pummelled at the polls? Will Republicans be cast as the party of “No” who were still munching free chicken wings at happy hour while the health care bus roared past them on the way to history? Or will they be swept to victory by a pitchfork-wielding angry mob of voters.
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Interesting and historic event but the Hitler mustaches and crazy-talk attacks have got to go.
Even if the pitchfork crowd replaces all of Congress, it’s not going to matter: nobody is ever going to be able to put back the genie now. Nobody is going to let hem roll back to allow caps and pre-existing conditions. About the only place they could get any traction is to insist on tighter control of abortion related subsidies and that is very, very hard to do in any way that wil really do anything.
I would really like to see some real speaking out against the ugliness. The extremists are an embarrassment to anyone associated with them and responsible politicians should be loudly condemning them – not applauding as they did when that protester disrupted things last night.
Progress…FINALLY!!!!! Now on to the 999,999 other problems facing the country!
Social Security is bankrupt. Medicare is bankrupt. Every poll has a thumbs down on this bill. Some legislators found a horses head in their beds to get their vote. Assorted legislative bribes. A trillion plus dollar debt. Thirty-seven states have already filed legislation. This bill is over 2,000 pages long. I have a Cadillac plan so I get penalized? If it runs like SS then good luck. Joe Wilson was right. Far right….but right.
I think that once the details of the plan are widely known, there will be more support and maybe a lot of support. Opposition so far has been a hysterical reaction to the Beck/Limbaugh types.
I think there is a real chance(wishful thinking perhaps) that Republican attempts to make this Obama’s Waterloo have instead created their own.
One can only hope.
If Republican opposition truly were about the bill and not just nasty politics, it would be logical for most of them to vote for the Senate reconciliation bill rather than wasting time with more Parliamentary challenges.
Logically, that bill amends many of the problems that they complained about in the bill that was passed. Logically, it would be better to vote for the “better” version even if it still had aspects you don’t like. It’s the “make the best of a bad situation” move.
But of course it never was about the bill, so I only note that as a sort of one-fingered salute to those who still think the Republicans have any shred of honesty left in them.
What I have against the whole process is – The Process! This was suppose to be an open process according to President WOW (Walk On Water) and it was anything but. Every poll shows a clear and over whelming support for reform. That is a given. Many of the Republican concerns are addressed in the legislation. Time for them to fess up and admit that probably 80% of this bill is just fine and dandy with them instead of using it as a bully pulpit in the fall. Heck, they know they’ll pick up a pile of seats without this bill.
The Republicans finally found a fiscal compass that disappeared almost a decade ago. Now they yap on about debt, phony bailouts and rushed legislation. I take them with as much faith as I do the equally if not even more so corrupt Democratic Party.
The end result will start to surface in a few years and if premiums go through the roof, debt is out on control and quality of service disintegrates the Democratic Party will become an after thought. Hopefully, both parties will. Let them merge. Time for something to replace the Repulocrats. Maybe with a viable third party I can actually get a ballot and not wrote in “none of the above.”
I don’t think the process was nearly as bad as the fringe right teabaggers made it out to be. There were a couple of meetings that were not on CSPAN and about 99.9% that were. Obama took that criticism, owned up to it, and that’s that.
Look at http://whitehouse.gov and tell me that the transparency has not leapt light years ahead of any other administration. Video, audio, and text of almost every speech and address.
I’ll need some examples of how the whole process was “anything but” transparent. Perfect .. no .. but not nearly as bad as the Republican spin machine is portraying it.
Bogo – who do you think will pay for this party come Nov?
Try backroom deals for a starter. You think doing things on the sly is transparency? Give me a break! You know all about the Cornhusker Kickback etc.? Even the unions got a nice shake. WOW owned up to it because he was outed. Think he would have said anything if he was not? This went on and on and who knows what deals happened with insurers and pharm companies? Some call it horse-trading but if this was done in the business world it would be called a bribe. Now he promotes a “new transparency.” Just do a simple search on Obama and transparency and the hits will keep on coming. This process was vilified continually even by some of Obama’s ardent media supporters. I’d ride the bike at the “Y” and listen to CNN hammering away. Politics have changed as I cannot imagine two Massachusetts speakers – Joe Martin and Tip O’Neil functioning like Pelosi.
The parallels between this and the casino issue are very similar. Both had too many closed door dealings, lack of transparency, rushed through and so on. Very little done in the way of impacts. This final bill took 14 months but the paper it is printed on had how many readings in the House? How much debate in the House? The final legislation is a cobbled together book of promises that not a single House member has – IMO – read. One of the most significant pieces of legislation and it is pumped through with virtual no hearing or reading. Amazing! This was a turbid bill. You do not do business like that.
Democrats will pay dearly bill or no bill. Many have already jump shipped. This happens in non presidential years and especially with a lousy economy. Just look at the Republicans a few years ago? War, bad economy and an president reeling. Indy’s will control the elections as they did in Massachusetts and right now an large portion of them view Obama as to the left of their own personal philosophy. Maybe if some type of fiscal miracle happens and the economy rebounds significantly the losses will be minimal and not disastrous. Now Republicans are “energized” so watch out. As the song says “Meet the new boss same as the old boss.”
I have often said the difference between a Senator and a Congressman is a Senator costs more.
You might be right but I think there is significant risk of them becoming demoralized by being left out of the most significant piece of social legislation of our time and by a public that is tired of the far out crazy right wing teabaggers and Glenn Beck’s that call Obama a Marxist and so on.
We shall see.
Those “crazy right wing” may not have a significant voice but just a loud one. It is the moderates within that movement that have grabbed attention and slowly they will weed out the fringe or will fade from view. To minimize and demonize them is a terrific mistake. To dismiss the impact of Beck or Rush is a similar mistake. Personally I fine the failed sports reporter offensive to the nth degree compared with both of them. The audience of the radio right is significant and they bring in a lot of indy’s to the listening audience.
The significance of this legislation will not be felt for several years and who knows how many changes in party will happen? We could easily have a Republican in office in 2013 or a Republican Congress? If this legislation goes the way of the negatives have stated it will – even close – this will be a real mess. I have said this statement many times before – I have no problem raising the under/non insured to my level but do not lower me to theirs. I suspect that will happen.
Surprise of the day? Health care index are up over 1%. They have been flopping all over the place for a year.
Nice run today, Mark, up about three hills. You would have loved it! I may have already put it on our running blog a few months ago.
They are minimizing and demonizing themselves.
Limbaugh and Beck only have “impact” with the uninformed, the hopelessly dumb and the intractable conservatives who will always resist any social change. The rest of us ignore them.
What you “suspect” is just more FUD. Your insurance company is far more likely to lower your benefits than any Government program will.
I guess the uninformed is translated into those who do not agree with you. I happen to look at both sides and the middle and prefer not to take the ranting blather of the far left or right that only diminishes any possible credibility they may have. Many a cognizant idea can come from both ends of the spectrum but, unfortunately, the messenger is usually flawed so more reasonable voices can adopt it and refine it – maybe. They just spite themselves.
I also do not suffer fools and one thing I discovered early is ideologues happen to fall into that category more often than not. And Rush, Beck, Olbermann and a passel of others certainly fit that mold but I don’t care to have a haughty dismissal simply because I do not subscribe to their rants du jour. The bottom line is the radio/TV right appeals to a significant and influential segment. Like ‘em or hate ‘em that is a fact and they vote. Left at this juncture is just an afterthought in the media wars.
Lowering of benefits? Will there be any diminishing of Medicare benefits? That 500 billion figure has been tossed around. My insurance is government administered (GIC) and they have already tweaked benefits (Feb.) but since I am also Medicare it does not have an impact on me but does on my wife and daughter, who now have higher co-pays. So I have no faith in government incompetency and corporate greed for those in private plans.
Yes, the uninformed and the unintelligent do tend not to agree with me. No surprises there – I am a lunatic liberal and you almost never find that among the u and u’s.
You tend not to agree with me either, but I think that’s more due to nature and nurture. I think that you are fearful and mistrustful – again, perhaps partly by nature and perhaps partly from painful experience. Your tone implies that you see both government and business as the “other”. I see our government as the more trustworthy guardian of my interests – imperfect, of course, often stumbling, sometimes regressing, but nonetheless always moving toward an ideal.
I think Health Care is a rather good expression of that. It’s not a great bill – it leaves much undone and is perhaps unrealistically funded. However, it sets a tone – a tone that says we do care and that although there were and are utilitarian reasons also, part of it really is genuine concern for our fellow humans.
I would guess that you favor “local rule”. While not implying that these motives apply to you, I see “local rule” as shorthand for “We like our racist homophobia as it is and don’t want you damn eggheads telling us how act or how to raise our kids”. You probably get a sick stomach over the thought of an expanding Federal government; I see it as both good and necessary.
Understand that I don’t insist that I am “right”. That’s an adjective that has almost no meaning in the context of politics. If a philosophy molded by Glenn Beck ran this country, it would be an awful place for me to live, but it might be a simply wonderful place for a lot of other people. As I and others of my ilk are a very small minority (smaller even than the Tea Party extremists), we really are unimportant in the sense of “right”.
You seem proud to claim the middle as your ground and I’m sure most folks would agree that’s a rational place to be. I’m just not happy there – I’d rather stand out here outside and be unreasonable and insulting
You are quite fortunate in that you already know all the answers – and, of course, fully understand me. I find your references to those who disagree with you as racist and homophobic – which is exactly what you are implying that I am with, of course, the little cravat denying it. I guess you could say I don’t bother with fools either.
I could have a long discourse on government but why even bother. You already have your assessment of me. You are always welcome on my blog.
I’m reminded of the Wolf and Sheepdog cartoons where the characters punch in, pummel each other for 8 hours, the punch out and are best buddies off the clock.
You don’t read very well. I don’t know all the answers and I never even began to imply that all who disagree with me are racist and homophobic.
You use the terms too often. Just devalues the issues. I guess I do have my intellectual limitations.
@bogofree
I knew you guys would agree on something sooner or later …
I use the terms too often?
The reality is that racism, homophobia, antisemitism and disdain for science are rampant among those who cry for “home rule”. You may believe that keeping Federal influence out of the States is important for purely fiscal reasons, but for most of its champions, it means leave us and our ugly home rule attitudes alone. We see that in Texas and other states wanting their school children taught creationism. we see gay bashing everywhere and if you deny that racism wasn’t a part of many Tea Party protests you have to be blind.
I’m sorry you don’t like being lumped with those people by association, but there it is. Pretending they don’t exist or a a tiny minority (“you use the words too often”) isn’t the right response.
I don’t know what your “intellectual limitations” are. I do know that these ugly attitudes are strong in the groups you seem to be defending. I say “seem to” because it’s not really clear – are you part of them or not? Hard to tell from what you’ve posted here.
Amazing how you can read my mind! Does not exist? Deny? Huh? I deal with it daily and have for years. It is not as prevalent as you seem to feel it is with a racist and homophobic under every rock. IMHO as long as issues go unattended within an organization or society they will fester and gain acceptability. I just don’t know who “them” are to you? My assumption is it is – again – anyone within your clear vision. Is “Them” conservatives? We have some in town. Are they racist? Is the RTC a nest of them ready to be rooted out? Is it all those Tea Party people? I know some of them are emotional loose cannons. Is that representative of them all? Oh, well, enough nonsense. Time to tend to the best blog in Middleboro. Enjoy the rally, boys.
No, they aren’t under every rock. You are correct that unattended issues gain acceptability – I see that happening.
The question is what to do about it. Small example: I play poker weekly with people I like. Unfortunately, they are mostly very conservative so we all try to avoid talking much about politics.
So several times an old timer there has said things about homosexuals (using another word) and about our President and our Governor (again using another word). He’s prone to tell jokes with that sort of orientation. I honestly want to ignore it. I want to think it’s harmless, he’s just too old and set in his ways to know any better.
It’s one thing when some ignorant yahoo fills your space with spittle while screaming things like this. “The guv’nor is a fa**ot”, my companion remarked the other night, with no more inflection or apparent malice than if he were saying that someone else is Italian.
What do you say to that? I don’t remember what I said – probably something like “What difference would it make if he were?”. As I said, I don’t want to make a big fuss about it, but I am not comfortable ignoring it either. As I said, I *like* this old coot and I don’t think he can begin to understand why his comments are unacceptable.
And you keep your mouth shut? It is all about character, Tony, and what about yours if it goes unaddressed? Speak up. I have a blog that started over the very issue of character or in that case lack of it. I’ll tell you some stories about personal character sometime that can shape a future as my own lack at one time did for me.
Speak to the guy in private as a public display is not appropriate. You will be surprised how responsive some can be when it is framed appropriately since the guy appears to have some redeeming features. I’ve done this many a time both in the dreaded private sector and the public sector.
Then you have a situation like my Grandmother who was born in the 19th century and her constant use of “Shvartzer” to describe anyone who was dark skin from Black to if a family member had a good suntan. Of course that was mild compared to when Mr. Wong came to pick up the laundry and she would yell out “The Chinaman is here for the laundry.”
No, as I said, I did say something. I can’t let things like that just pass by. I’ve always expressed disapproval, but it doesn’t seem to matter. I think the point is that no one else says anything – they are more apt to laugh with him or just agree. That’s the problem – this Tea Party craziness has made it OK to make comments and jokes that should generate outrage.
By the way, there’s no point in lecturing me on “character”. Almost everybody thinks they are personally moral and of great character. If you can point out in flaw in that assessment, we’ll always have a mitigating circumstance to explain it.
I don’t know that he has any redeeming features. He’s a good poker player – does that count?
I doubt very much if the Tea Party “craziness” has anything to do with his behavior. Foolish behaviors are certainly are not exclusively confined to the right. His behaviors appear to be quite ingrained and he has a compliant audience. They will not be changed but they can be controlled or moderated for the environment. Good luck with that.
If you note in my post I also mentioned my own character. Yours? My opinion was based primarily on your responses to a CFO poster. Maybe that is a value judgment on my part and it could have been your Rev. Wright moment? I just have a certain sensitivity when it comes to folks with disabilities and assume the worse.
As far as the emotional hot button issue of health care even that is starting to recede. I noticed the “hits” on it are now being outpaced by Jessie James and Sandra Bullock. The Republicans can now work at unseating selective legislators and those results will be known in November.
Enjoy your days, boys, as I am off to administer MCAS.